In a phone conversation on August 29, Chinese State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi told U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken the U.S. clearly knows the causes of the current chaotic situation in Afghanistan.

Wang Yi told Blinken that the hasty withdrawal of the U.S. and NATO troops is likely to offer an opportunity to various terrorist groups in Afghanistan to resurge. He urged the U.S. to take concrete actions to help Afghanistan combat terrorism and violence, rather than practicing double standards or selectively fighting terrorism.

On the same day, the U.S. announced along with 97 other countries that they had reached an agreement with the Taliban. The agreement will allow them to get their Afghan allies out of the country after the August 31 withdrawal deadline.

In an interview, Liu Xin spoke with His Excellency Yue Xiaoyong, Special Envoy for Afghan Affairs of the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Yue was appointed in July and has shuttled intensively between Afghanistan, Russia, Turkey, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Iran. He joined Liu Xin from Islamabad, Pakistan. The interview was conducted on August 22, 2021. Below is a transcript of the interview.

Liu Xin: Ambassador, thank you so much for joining us. You were appointed China's Special Envoy on Afghan Affairs on July 21 this year. 

As China's new Special Envoy on Afghan Affairs at such a particular juncture, how do you see the significance and responsibility that comes with this appointment? 

Does that signal, as some are putting it, China will play a greater role or be more involved in Afghanistan?

Yue Xiaoyong: Thank you, Ms. Liu Xin. Actually, this is indeed a continuous effort of China in our handling (of) the Afghan issue. And before me, there were already three of my predecessors- Ambassador Sun Yuxi, Ambassador Deng Xijun, and Ambassador Liu Jian. 

And they have laid a very good foundation for the job, and we have the support of our embassies in Afghanistan and in the region. And we have also been guided and led by our headquarters in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Of course, at the moment, a lot of events we're seeing, as you just now said, we have the crisis of the situation, and it evolves very, very fast. 

And starting from the beginning of my trip on 28 July, and up to now, simply just several weeks passed, but a lot of things has (have) happened. 

If you say the appointment has some significance, it shows again, together with my predecessors, we attach really great importance of our people. We are concerned about the Afghan, Afghanistan issue, the peace, the reconciliation, the intra-Afghan talks and possible, the future peaceful reconstruction of the country.

So, all these need us to put an extra effort together with Afghanistan, with the neighboring countries, with the region and international society to see how we tide over together this crisis and see Afghan with peace, stability, and development return to Afghanistan. 

Liu Xin: You have been a career diplomat with lots of experience, decades, you were ambassador to Jordan, to Qatar, to Ireland, and you also have a scholarly research background. So how would you describe your style and what kind of special envoy do you want to be remembered by?

Yue Xiaoyong: That's a very good question. Of course, I was entrusted by the ministry, and I will try my best to use my experience and my knowledge and my ability to execute my mission, and with my team. 

But as a matter of fact, this is really a joint effort together with a lot of people, my team, and as I said, the embassy, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, we have a lot of people there to support our mission.

Liu Xin: With the different political forces in Afghanistan, what kind of exchanges have you had so far, as one of your top priorities or most urgent tasks is to establish contacts with all parties as soon as possible? And so, what kind of interactions have you had with the Taliban, for instance, and your major takeaways from the process, if there has been any?

Yue Xiaoyong: Yeah, good question and there are a lot of elements in your question and let me speak one by one.

I think first and foremost, we respect the sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence of Afghanistan. And we want to stick to Afghan-led, Afghan-owned principle in all our handling of this crisis and in all our efforts, both by China and by China with other countries.

And we see, we have a lot of things to do, but as our State Councilor and Foreign Minister said, in his meeting with a lot of his counterparts and in his efforts, including my trip, we all emphasize that in the first phase, the 15th of August is really sort of the turning point.

And before that, and after, as we are talking now, the situation is still evolving, and a lot of things are fluid. We emphasize first and foremost we should bring together the unity of the international society to put our efforts together for the peace and the stability and intra-talk for the reconciliation of the country.

And secondly, we should have the joint efforts to remember that here, we should not let the crisis spill over. We continue to fight the terrorism, and together with the stakeholders of Afghanistan, to make sure the Taliban and others make a clean breakaway from terrorist groups. And we wouldn't see the growth and recovery of the terrorist groups in this region. You know China, we have our particular concern too. The ETIM did a lot of terrorist acts and criminal acts in the region.

Thirdly, we would like to see the situation calm down as soon as possible and to see this reconciliation take place. 

Liu Xin: You have been meeting a lot of regional countries and counterparts, of course, counterparts from the United States, from Russia as well. But from your meetings, what do you think has been the biggest consensus and the major differences among the different stakeholders? And what lie in the way of regional coordination or cooperation helping the situation in Afghanistan?

Yue Xiaoyong: Yeah, the consensus there is obvious, and almost all the countries, even the Taliban and the stakeholders of Afghanistan, we agree that we should have the peace in the country, and the stability in the country as soon as possible. And also, Troika Plus One and also the 6+2 meeting in Doha, and other, in our bilateral talks with my counterparts in the neighboring countries, and the regional countries, we all agree that the peace, reconciliation should be there, and also, we hope there will be inclusive government widely supported by all the stakeholders and groups and political forces of Afghanistan. And together they set up the new process, that they have their own government. And also, especially, they must make sure that they have, the Taliban, especially, have made a clear breakaway from the terrorism.

Liu Xin: What's the biggest difference in everybody's opinion? What do you think is lying in the way of effective coordination and corporation of the region?

Yue Xiaoyong: Yeah, we are in the middle of the process. The difference there we see, sometimes is, some country is closer to the region, sometimes some countries is further away. 

And you can see the neighboring countries, they attach great importance to the quicker ending of the crisis and the terrorism, the refugees.

Some countries would like to see, we should see the positive elements of Taliban as a political and military force, and they are committed to those goals. They are indeed doing something which is also positive, but at the same time, we attach importance not only to their words, but also to the deeds.

Some other countries see more negative trend. So as Taliban, in this juncture of the time, indeed, they are trying to show they are turning for a more peaceful, more moderate and sound Muslim policy, more inclusive. When they think of constituting the country's political setup, they are committed to have the friendly relations with the rest of the world, especially with the regional countries and the neighboring countries.

Now we are in the middle of the situation, and every day, there are events happening here and there. Some countries are saying, still, there is a daily emphasis on the more, on the something unchanged in Taliban group. And others would like to bring, to say, let's encourage the positive trend and give them time.

Liu Xin: Whether you give the Taliban the benefit of the doubt or not. Probably that is the way I see it.

Yue Xiaoyong: I wouldn't put it that way. I say this is an ongoing process. We see some uncertainties there, still there, as we are talking. We see, but we would like to encourage the positive trends from the Taliban and from other stakeholders of the country and other political forces so long as this brings to peace, reconciliation, the inclusive political structure, and the fighting against terrorism, and be friendly with the rest of the world.

Liu Xin: How involved will China be, in the near future, of affairs in Afghanistan? For instance, there are people who are saying now that the U.S. and its allies have withdrawn, have abandoned Afghanistan, China is stepping in the void and trying to extend its influence or reach or investment in Afghanistan. How do you see that or how does China see that?

Yue Xiaoyong: Yeah, that's a very, very good question. I think, in fact, as many countries see, regarding Afghan issue, the United States and NATO's hasty, irresponsible withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan is the major factor of all the messy chaotic situation now we are facing.

So, this is a very irresponsible way to handle the issue. And a huge mistake, a blunder, as put by some of our (the) stakeholders, countries here. And the United States really, as I said with them, and when I have the bilateral meeting with them too, that this is a huge, not only military missed disaster, international politics disaster, and also a credibility disaster. The United States should really redress the mistakes and not repeat the mistakes in the present and future handling of the Afghan issue. United States is still an important factor outside of Afghanistan.

So, in the current and the future handling of the Afghanistan issue, United States is still, is supposed to play an important role in that we do hope the United States will draw the lessons for 20 years they have been military intervention there.

They redress their mistakes, will not repeat the mistakes and work with the international society, the regional countries, to really bring the peace and stability and peaceful reconstruction in Afghanistan.

All the way, we should always respect the sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence of Afghanistan.

And again, I want to emphasize that to use the old ways, the power politics and military intervention to deal with the international, regional hot spot problems as evidenced in Afghanistan issue, will only cause more problems than solve them.

Liu Xin: So, what does the situation mean for China because there are different opinions? 

Some people see that the new future as an opening of opportunity for China's expanding regional influence and reach and of course investment opportunity, while others say the withdrawal of the United States means that the United States can concentrate on containing China, can focus its resources on containing China. So, it's a bad. It's not an opportunity or maybe a regional opportunity for China to its west, but overall, not a good thing for China. So what does the situation now mean for China?

Yue Xiaoyong: Yeah, you're right. It is opportunity, but I would like to put the opportunity in the following way.

For a long time, over the past 20 years, 40 years, as far as you can trace back 70 years, maybe for the first time in over all these years, Afghanistan and the people, Afghan people have the opportunity to build their country, to reconstruct their country in a peaceful, stable way and take the fate of the country, of the nation in their own hands. That is the opportunity.

Also the neighboring countries, the regional countries have the opportunity to follow Afghan-led, Afghan-owned principle, to find, to develop the economic opportunities by cooperation, by the mutual beneficial cooperation with our Afghan people. And that is the opportunity.

And, also in all this, we have the opportunity to fight against terrorism. And for a long time, because of this foreign intervention and all kinds of the, this kind of the sufferings, Afghanistan people, Afghan people are not able to take fate in their own hands and we see the terrorist, all kinds of terrorist groups use the land to grow and to commit a lot of the really, very terrorist acts and not only hurting their own people, but hurting their neighbors, the regional countries.

And for China, we also have been making efforts with Afghan government, with the stakeholders of Afghanistan, and also with the neighboring countries in fighting this terrorism. That is the opportunity, that is to say, that opportunity that Afghanistan will no longer to be the, again, the safe haven or the concentrating place for terrorism to grow.

Liu Xin: For China's Belt and Road Initiative, the BRI, there hasn't been a major project taking route in Afghanistan over the past decade or so. Now, the situation has changed. The U.S. intervention, U.S. invasion has ended. Do Chinese investors see an opening of opportunity to increase investment under the Belt and Road Initiative in Afghanistan?

Yue Xiaoyong: You see, our BRI initiative, always based on the mutual benefit and on connecting the strategy, development strategy and opportunities and projects of the host countries. So, they are already thinking how to connect their economic development…

Liu Xin: What's the position of the Taliban? What's the position of the Taliban on the Belt and Road Initiative?

Yue Xiaoyong:  Oh, they are interested. They have talked about the future economic cooperation, the project investment, they know One Belt and Road, they also know the success of not only China, but also the neighboring countries, how they enjoyed peace and stability of the country. So, they have the opportunity to use the time, which Afghanistan sadly didn't make good use of, in over the past 20 years to build a country up.

And now they see, as I said, they have the fate of their own country in their own hands. They are already considering how to cooperate, to make efforts, with China, with the neighboring countries, with the regional countries, with other countries in the world to realize the reconstruction of the country, to bring the prosperity of the country.

Liu Xin: Ambassador Yue, will China recognize the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan sometime soon?

Yue Xiaoyong:  Yeah, the question is always there. So far, as I said, we see and encourage positive elements of the Taliban and other stakeholders of the country.

We also see the significant change has already taken place in Afghanistan. We respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity, the will of Afghan people. And at the same time, we also see the positive trends of Taliban and other stakeholders in the country. They are working on peace and reconciliation of the country. 

On the other hand, we have already, as I said just now, we not only listen to the words, we see the deeds. There are still some uncertainties here and there inside the country. We hope that our Afghan people and the Taliban and other stakeholders of the country should continue to work towards the peace and stability and reconciliation and (an) inclusive government, also fighting against terrorism, and the friendly relation with the neighboring, regional, international relations, international society.

I'm also happy to say that so far, our embassy and institution and those people in Afghanistan, especially our embassy, is still working, and our ambassador is still there, still operate.

We have told, we have spoken from different channels, from Beijing, from embassies and I myself have spoken to the Taliban to make sure our embassy and institution and people are safe.

Liu Xin: So, when will China recognize the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan?

Yue Xiaoyong: As I said, we have seen some positive elements and positive trends in the Taliban and other stakeholders in the country. We also see the uncertainties there. 

We hope that everything will go to the positive and constructive direction. And we try to, on one hand, we respect the sovereignty and the territorial integrity and independence; at the same time, we try to create an environment for them to realize the peace and stability of the country, and the security of the country.

Liu Xin: What is your opinion on the kind of concerns about the future status and rights of Afghan women and children? Do you, does China share these concerns?

Yue Xiaoyong: Of course. Sure. And as I said just now, all the humanitarian disaster and all the sufferings of other people, all the messy and chaotic situation. We care and we are very concerned and that is why I emphasize, repeatedly today in our conversation, that we'd like to work together with the stakeholders of Afghanistan, with Taliban and other Afghan political forces and stakeholders, with the neighboring countries, with the regional countries, to really see Taliban return to the mainstream, the main political stream, to have the sound moderate Muslim policy, to have an inclusive constitution of the "non-capitalized", to have the inclusive government, put it properly, and to have a really tangible, effective efforts fighting against terrorism and to have the friendly relations with the neighbors and the rest of the world.

Liu Xin: As my last question, what kind of assistance, if any, is China organizing or thinking of organizing to provide Afghanistan as the humanitarian situation could be a crisis and as the economy is looking at a very uncertain future?

Yue Xiaoyong: Yeah, actually, this we have been doing this all along as we have actually enjoyed the traditional friendly relations with Afghanistan all these years in general. And now in this moment of crisis, we are with Afghan people, we are with Afghanistan and together working with neighboring and regional countries and international society. We have been all along trying our best to both from the humanitarian side and from our bilateral side and from our crisis management side.