Editor's note: China-India relations hold significant importance amidst the current geopolitical landscape and have a direct impact on global security. As two of the world's most populous nations and largest emerging economies, China and India share a complex relationship characterized by a combination of cooperation, consultation and occasional differences. India's growing proximity to the U.S. adds another layer to this complex relationship. To delve deeper into these evolving dynamics, we spoke with India's former Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran who was recently in Beijing to attend the World Peace Forum, where he deliberated on the roles of major powers in international security while also taking part in a special roundtable on China-India relations. The views expressed in the video are his own and not necessarily those of CGTN.

CGTN: What do you think of the power dynamics between the U.S., India and China? There is a perception that India is getting closer to the U.S. and is becoming a part of an alliance that is aimed at containing China. Do you agree with that perception?

Saran: It would be wrong to look at India-China relations through the prism of China-U.S. relations. The United States of America remains the repository of the most advanced technologies in the world. It remains a source of capital, it remains a very major market, and therefore it makes very good sense for India to establish a strong partnership with the United States of America.

We are not in the containment business. Both India and China are very large countries, like civilizational states. They are far too big to contain each other or to be contained by any third country. So, I do not think we should look at the relationships today through the prism of the Cold War.

CGTN: You referred to China and India as civilizational states. Chinese President Xi Jinping has launched three initiatives including the Global Civilization Initiative. What are your thoughts on that?

Saran: It is certainly our view that there should be engagement amongst different countries. We have different histories, we have different cultures, and therefore any opportunity where they are able to learn from each other, learn about each other is something that of course we welcome.

CGTN: You spoke about the decline of diplomacy as a challenge to global security. Now, the decline of diplomacy is true in the context of the China-U.S. relationship, but also in the case of the China-India relationship. What could be done to see a return to diplomacy when it comes to China-India relationship?

Saran: I was not suggesting that it's a complete stoppage of diplomatic activity. After all, the foreign ministers of India and China have been meeting. As I also mentioned, with respect to the border issue itself, we have had several rounds of discussions. But the kind of intensive engagement and conversations which should be taking place, not only between India and China, but amongst the major powers themselves, is something that is worrying.

And since the pandemic and the Ukraine conflict, we have actually seen that there has been more emphasis on military measures and less on diplomacy, and that is something that should worry us.

CGTN: Lately there have been talks of NATO expanding into the Asia-Pacific and we have seen Indian External Affairs Minister Dr. S. Jaishankar actually rejecting the idea of India joining such an alliance. How do you see India's position on this?

Saran: I would endorse what Foreign Minister Jaishankar has said. NATO has a certain history. NATO has a certain role and the theater in which it is supposed to operate. I do not think that there is really any useful role for NATO in Asia. We have several fora in Asia itself, to be able to address whatever security issues that we have amongst us.

We have the ASEAN, which we have, and all major powers have conceded that we should observe and respect the ASEAN centrality. There is the ADMM (ASEAN Defence Ministers' Meeting), which is the defense ministers' meetings of which India is a part. There is the ASEAN Regional Forum, where also we have representation. So, I think there are a number of fora where issues relating to Asian security could be addressed and are being addressed.

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