Jeffrey Sachs, an American economist and professor at Columbia University, says Europe lacks a clear direction and a security and defense strategy beyond NATO. Speaking with Glenn Diesen, a professor at the University of South-Eastern Norway, Sachs argues that Europe fails to understand why NATO is falling apart and continues to cling to an outdated worldview. He warns that the EU's 27 member states risk being picked apart by the United States or other outside powers if they fail to cooperate and coordinate effectively. He supports deeper European integration, but calls for a wiser Europe that prioritizes peace, strategic thinking and economic development.