Global Future is where all of our lives matter. Global future is where women are powerful and successful and transforming our government, our democracy, our economy and our society because we've eliminated the disparities that exist not just between women and men, but amongst women ourselves. Global future is where black lives matter so that all lives can matter. Global future is where we live interdependently, connected and all moving together in search of our common destiny and our common dignity.

This is Global Future with me, James Chau. I'm in Oakland, California, a historical center for civil rights activism in the United States. It was in this house that the militant Black Panther Party was founded back in the 1960s, a decade during which the civil rights struggle peaked in America. Oakland is also home to a woman called Alicia Garza. She's a co-founder of Black Lives Matter, an international activist movement that campaigns against racism and violence against black people, and at a time when tensions around police brutality have resurfaced. Black Lives Matter has been described as a hate group, but she says it's a non-violent and compassionate organization. I sit down with her and ask what her movement can realistically achieve, and whether her experiences offer solutions for people everywhere.

JC = JAMES CHAU

AG = ALICIA GARZA

JC: Let's go back to 1981. It was a very significant year. The year that Ronald Reagan became President. The year that the global AIDS epidemic began and the year the murder of Michal Donald, the last recorded lynching in the United States. That was also of course the year you were born. What was childhood and family like?

AG: Well, I was raised by a single mother for the first part of my life. So my mom grew up in Toledo. She moved out to California with her twin brother. He joined the army. And after my mom has been here for a couple of years. She got pregnant with me. And I lived with my uncle. And she tried to figure out how to raise me. So in 1981, I was the product of a single mom who worked several jobs to take care of me. In conjunction with her twin brother, my uncle who worked at night while my mom worked during the day. And I had a happy childhood. I am humble. I didn't have a lot of money. But I wasn't aware of that. I had most of what I needed, most of the time.

JC: You talk about these decisions and choices that you made. And that was a series of obviously good ones that have led you to the place you are today. But what empowered you at twelve years old to make you believe that I have a voice, it counts and I know how to use that.

AG: Well, that was in the 1990s and they think part of what was happening was there was a new world order coming into being. And 1992 was when there were the uprising in Los Angeles, Rodney King was brutally beaten by Los Angeles police department and then the police officers got off. 1994, I believe, was the OJ Simpson trial where there was a lot of turmoil about race and class in the media. So that was also as I remembered a new regime in terms of the Bushes right? So we went from Bush to Clinton. And in that moment, there was a lot of conversation and debate about family values and whether or not family values should be legislated by the government. So that era, I think was an era where people were being encouraged to speak out.

JC: Thank you for welcoming us to your home here in Oakland where you work around many complex issues like race, like domestic workers and of course ending police brutality. But could you give us a sense of what it is like to be a community activist here in this historical center in this year, in the age of Trump?

AG: We are really lucky here on the Bay Area because we have so much infrastructure. We are the birth place of the Black Panther Party and a lot of Panthers who were active when the Panther started are still here doing organizing and really building the vision for what they set out to do when they were my age or younger. So being here is almost like…it's almost like a dream in a sense, because we have a lot of models to either follow or to say: "Hey, I that worked then and this is what needs to work now." But also I think being in the Bay Area, you have this really interesting contradiction where the Bay Area is one of the richest regions in the country if not across the global. And there is pretty extreme inequality here so, this is a place that people flock to be. It is a place where people seek out progressive values and progressive lifestyle. And at the same time, you see a lot of challenges to people being able to live a life with dignity that most of us desire and long for. So there is police violence here. There is stratification that is ravaging our communities. And there is also a deep sense of that this is the place where people come and you learn how to fight back. So we've got those really interesting dynamics all-in-one kind of crucible.

JC: Then came 2013, a man called George Zimmerman was equated of the murder of Trayvon Martin, a 17- year-old high school student, somebody's son  (that's right). And you were in a bar on the Saturday night, you were checking your phone and you saw the verdict come out on Facebook. He is shot and killed, this boy. What happened next?

AG: Well I was with a group of friends actually, and we had spent a lot of time that day trying to figure out what was going to happen in the evening. We heard the verdict was going to come out and so we were …you know…making a lot of conjectures about what we thought would happen. Now remind you again, this is after Oscar Grant was murdered just a few blocks (away) from here. And Johannes Mehserle became one of the first police officers in history to be held accountable for the crime that they committed which was the murder of Oscar Grant. You had occupied Wall Street. The camps here were almost as large as the ones since Zuccotti Park right? You have a history here of resistance. And which meant that when we were trying to figure out what would happen, we didn't…Even though we know the criminal system doesn't  work for black people, meaning it doesn't enact justice for black people. I think there were still very much a sense that George Zimmerman would be held accountable for something.

JC: There would be people who hear this. I am just trying to (sure) open up that space for conversation who may object to what you've said that the justice system doesn't work for black people. They will say, well you just had the black President of the United States. How does that reckon sound? Is there a gap of understanding?

AG: Well I think we could understand that in the United States, our economy, our society, our culture is shaped by a series of contradictions. Even in the origin story of this country. Right? We hear stories about pilgrims coming from England and meeting you know, welcoming indigenous people who basically beg them to come and build their new life here on this land. Well instead, what happened was then people came, decided that there were…the people who were here were in the way, in the way of the resources they saw, in the way of the lifestyle that they saw and so there was an attempted genocide that continues to the stay. We hear stories about black people who were in slaved at one point in time. It was a stain on the United States history. But now those dynamics no longer exist. While in fact, there is deep generation law trauma both from the slave trade and its effects on the decedents of slaved people. But it also meant that in order to establishes country slavery shape everything. It shaped the way that the government was constructed, it shaped the way that the economy was constructed, and it also shaped cultural and society on norms around who has access to power and who doesn't. and so when I say that the justice system doesn't work for black people, what I means is that the very foundation of the justice system was set up to be able to protect property, not people. And when the system was created the people who were able to have property were white, and people who were not able to have property were black and in fact black were property, people owned other people. And those kinds of disparities continue through our justice system today, they haven't changed.

JC: When you read that verdict that the some point in your center gravity shifted you went on the Facebook, you wrote a post and that post ended with the words that we all now know: "Black people. I love you. I love us. Our lives matter". That became a hashtag in international movement rallying cry. Have you been surprised or even in fear of the huge public reactions in that day?

AG: I wouldn't say in fear of the reaction, but I would say that "black lives matter" feels like an idea whose time had come, again we didn't know that one George Zimmerman wouldn't be held the accountable of his crime, even though we know that there are injustice inside our criminal system. And they were shocking I think for a lot of people that an adult could get away of killing a child and being able to do that under existing laws in that particular state and in our country. George Zimmerman was acquitted understand ground statutes which existed in Florida. And some people would say: oh, that's just you know... southern state where they have backwards customs. But in fact, we have those kinds of laws all over the county, even here in California, people called them king of the castle doctrines, well again property is more important than people, and you are allowed to take someone else's life, if you are in fear of losing either your own life or your property. So, with that being seen I am not surprised and I am not scared by the response and reaction has come to "black lives matter", an in fact I feel like we are living in a really important time in history. It's for us, I think it's similar to what our parents feel when the civil-rights movement began to gain steam, and also probably when the black power movement began to gain steam. It feels like there was a real shift happening, both in our government, in our culture and in our economy and I think today is no different. 

JC: Black Lives Matter now four years old, it has very short and powerful history, and in the four years there is a catalog of horrific account of killings, when you think about all those killings over day is any evidence that Black Lives Matter actually works so can naturally save lives improve the lives already being here?

AG: Well I think the evidence is that the Black Lives Matter is now global phenomenon and funny thing I would say that's a signal that is working, and by working what I mean is we think the changing culture is just an important changing policy and we were doing both. In 2015, two years after Black Lives Matter emergence, you saw the shift in laws disrupt the country, there were something like 41 new laws passed related to criminal justice in 268 across the nation. That's more changes I guess you could say that it happened in one year then it happened in 10 year prior, right. I'm also the cultural shapes side we see now every time you turn on the television, you are learning about black lives matter whether be through your favorite sitcoms or whether be through the news you watch. We are now police violence which was always been true, here in the country, is now something that being broadcast into people's living rooms in a way they hadn't been before. So part of what black lives matter really puts front and center is that technically all lives should matter. Technically we shouldn't have to say black lives matter, but we have to say that, because we live in the contact with black lives don't matter and that's not just true in United States, it's true around the world.

JC: This conversation is being heard and watched internationally and I'm sure that there'll be people who are sympathetic who are supportive, but they may take as step back and say, well, I get it. But what does this have to do with me? I'm not black, I may not even be white. Why should they care?

AG: Well, people who are not black should care about black lives matter. Because it's very much about the quality of life that we all have access to or don't, and if you're like me you want to live in a world where everyone can pursue their dreams. If you're like me then you want the United States to live up to its promise of freedom and justice inequality, and if you're like me you want to make sure that every child has a right to become an adult. I mean you want to make sure that your own children have the right to grow up to become adults that if you're a parent yourself that you don't outlive your children and that's exactly what black lives matter is talking about. We're talking about restoring dignity to lives that have had it robbed from them. We're talking about creating a society and a culture and an economy and a democracy where people actually get to participate without barriers. And so what I say is you don't have to be black to care about black lives matter. What you do have to be is committed to realizing the promise that we all talk about so much. If we want to live in a world that's free, then we all have a contribution to make and part of what your contribution can be is someone who's not black is to ensure that there aren't disparities between black people and people who aren't black none of that serves us.

JC: What I'm hearing from sitting beside you is that you offer a template that could possibly be applied to wider global issues, because it also comes down to individuals and humanity, and wanting to achieve a dream and a dignity not just an American dream.  

AG: That's really.

JC: In your experience leading this. What's one lesson you could offer everybody everywhere?

AG: One lesson I'd want to offer everyone everywhere is that it is important to pursue not just what is going to make you successful but what is going to ensure that our communities are going to be sustained beyond us. Whether that be climate change? Whether that be poverty? Whether that be health disparities? All of those kinds of things are preventable. They are made by people, and so therefore they can be undone by people. So my lesson would be figure out what your role is in making sure that we can all live well, and that will ensure that many more people can live after us and that we can actually have the quality of life that we deserve.

JC: Black lives matter is sometimes described as a grandchild of the civil rights movement. That hit in the way in the 19th in the mainstream awareness. Is that accurate or is that a naive description?

AG: We stand on the shoulders of giants. So I wouldn't be here if my great-grandmother and my great-great grandmother hadn't fought to create space for me to live here at the way that I live now. So grandchild, sure, I like to think about them more as like rivers.

JC: Many of those key figures were men, Martin Luther King Malcolm X Marcus Garvey. Is it coincidental or is it representative or an expression of a societal shift that Black Lives Matter has three founders and all three are women.

Those are all the names that we know because they're the names of men. But at the same time, women were always the backbone of social movements. Whether that be the role that Coretta Scott King played in her husband even being able to be the man that he was. Whether it be the four little girls who were martyred in a church in Birmingham Obama, who were murdered by Klansmen as they were praying and getting ready for Sunday School. Whether it be Ella Baker who encouraged and developed so many people who became strategists and organizers during the civil rights movement. Or even whether it be Diane Nash or Shirley Chisholm, who was the first black woman to ever run for president black women have always been at the backbone of social movements and have always been the backbone of what has made those movements successful. And so I would say it's great that we celebrate all those men, but in celebrating all those men we've cast a lot of shadows on the women who made it possible for them to be where they were.

JC: You mentioned the word president. so I'll go that.

AG: Okay, you go.

JC: Ready?

AG: Let's do it.

JC: You've been critical. Many would not be surprised of President Trump, others may be much more surprised that you've also been publicly critical of Barack Obama and also both Clinton's. Is this a sign that the grandchild or the civil rights movement that was so attached to the US Democratic Party, no longer has their default partnership.

AG: I think it's a sign that um our vision is much bigger than representational democracy. So, lots of people felt like Barack Obama was going to make a bunch of changes because he was the first black president, and so in some ways being the first one, certainly should have meant right that black people enjoyed a better quality of life. In some cases, that was true. But in a lot of cases, what was true was that power wasn't interrupted in any significant way, enough to make those changes real for millions of people. Same thing with Donald Trump, what we have here is not just one man, but we have an entire group of people an ideology that wants to change the way that democracy functions. It wants to change whether or not democracy is even a thing. And I think we have to be really clear that what Trump wants to do is further and further consolidate power in the hands of very, very few for the benefit of himself and his friends, and that has been my criticism of the Clintons as well. Right? That when it comes down to really playing a role where as a leader, you have to decide how to solve problems for millions of people.

JC: I want to wrap up by speaking more about you, you speak with such clarity and purpose and that's informed by experiences not just in a leadership role, but being on the streets. Leading those rallies, those demonstrations, coming face to face with non-violence, against those people who are white supremacists and more. And yet there's a great darkness underlying because every one of those men and women who have been shot and killed. Sometimes in very unclear circumstances on streets, in homes, in the prison system suffocated. It's very, very dark. How do you negotiate and manage that mentally?

AG: Well, I have to call on the strength that my ancestors had in probably more adverse conditions than are the ones that we're living in now. Whenever I think about, you know, how difficult this work is? I'm remembering that people like Harriet Tubman had much, much worse. Right? I technically have my freedom to where you can be sitting in my house right now with these cameras and with these lights, and we can be having a conversation about the change that we want to see.

JC: I'm sure you're well aware. But there are those who say that you're racist, you're extremist, that you're a terrorist, and you are un-American. Are you a dangerous person at all?

AG: Not at all. I don't even kill insects. I take spiders and I dump them outside of my house. But besides that, I mean let's be honest. All of those kinds of labels are code words to delegitimize and disrupt the success of this movement. We know that what social movements are supposed to do is we're supposed to disrupt power as it operates. We're supposed to dislocate abuses of power where they operate and when you do that, you are a dangerous person. When you are someone who dares to question why things work the way they do and that is dangerous to the status quo.

JC: I'm sure you also know that black lives matter, this hate group some say organizers bake sales I think there's even one on today nearby in California. That's very different to the public image some paint, but you obviously threaten a type of system. Do you worry about your personal safety and what comes with that?

AG: I've had threats to my personal safety, and so do I worry about it? I would say I'm just more mindful of it. And what I know from my elders is that, that also is what happens when you dare to disrupt how power operates, and when we think about what happened to the Black Panther Party, part of it was the government trying to disrupt how successful they were in both meeting people's needs and challenging the status quo. black lives matter is not just a movement of black people. It is a movement of all different kinds of people from different cultures and different backgrounds, who understand the ways in which racism against black people is used to create disparities between communities, between cultures and between people. So am I worried about it? I'm conscious of it. And am I going to stop what we're doing because somebody wants to preserve their way of life? Absolutely not, we have to keep going.

JC: I want to close with this. Go back to that Facebook post in 2013, it was written as a love letter, as a love note. Can it stay that way and can you stay nonviolent with all the killings and the grief that continues?

AG: I think it has to. And I think, when we talk about non-violence, we can't talk about it in a vacuum. So for me what non-violence means is, it means preserving your humanity, it means remembering that we are all interconnected, and that in order for you to survive. Right? And in order for me to survive, I need to be able to depend on you. I think for us what we're committed to is making sure that we strengthen the bonds between people, and that means eliminating segregation, that means eliminating disparities, and that means caring enough about each other, to be able to fight for each other on each other's behaviors. Um and so yes, this has to continue to be a movement that's powered by love. And part of what it means to be powered by love is to be unafraid to tell the truth, and to be unwavering in our commitment to transforming society as we know it.

JC: Alicia Gaza, thank you very much for opening up and sharing.

AG: Thank you for being here, thank you.